Thank you to all four contributors. You offered rich ideas and eloquent words, and you're making me think, and reconsider!
In an unethical society, every question is complex. As an uncle of mine said, it's not the knife that is responsible for the murder, it's the person using it to kill someone.
I definitely need to dive into this deeper but the thing that stuck out to me the most on a cursory reading was talking about having someone create something from an idea of yours - that causes creativity to require an economic transaction. But most of these AI tools are paid, and their use enriches unethical people - there's still an economic transaction between the user and the creative product. I'd like to see that essay writer weigh in on what makes an economic transaction to access AI different from an economic transaction to pay another creative to assist with the realization of an idea.
I'd also love to hear others' thoughts about weighing the idea of putting money directly into the pockets of people who scraped the Internet for uncompensated training material, if that's a fair price to pay for "enriching" one's life - at what point are we making our own lives easier at the expense of others in a way that doesn't outway the cost? If we can survive without AI, why would we choose to add a tool that provides ease at the expense of others when we survived without it previously all our lives?
Ultimately I think it would be better to build an ethical society that gives people freedom to pursue creative interests in ways that accommodate the way their brains work than slap a band-aid on the way things are now by creating dubiously ethical tools that may help some people, but that's my own conclusion.
This is a good question, Caroline and I will address it at the Salon.
"I'd like to see that essay writer weigh in on what makes an economic transaction to access AI different from an economic transaction to pay another creative to assist with the realization of an idea."
Ultimately we are all going to have our own reasons and justifications for our personal usage of AI. The fact remains that it's not going away so we all have to address how we want to relate to it at some point. That's what the Salon is about, exploring all of the questions and thoughts you raised here. I hope you will join!
I am considering joining. Personally I do not use AI tools. Maybe I'm privileged not to need them because of the way my brain functions, I know everyone with ADHD and autism experiences it differently. At this time I don't find use of generative AI to be consistent with my own values of authenticity, effort, and doing as little harm to the world as possible while existing in the system in which I find myself, but I hold no judgement for people who draw different conclusions and don't consider my own personal values inherently superior to anyone else's by default.
I'm happy to talk about that, too, Caroline--now and on the Salon!
From purely practical to more complicated ethics:
First, not all AI tools require an economic transaction. Almost all platforms offer free versions.
Typically, the first tier of the paid versions is also less expensive than hiring someone. This is where it definitely starts to get fuzzy — I do like to work with people more than AI, but I'm also not in a place where I can hire all the people I would like to.
For me, it comes down to whether it is better to get things done or not. I did indeed survive without AI, but many days it felt like that's all I managed to accomplish.
I wish our society was different and more accommodating. And I wholly agree that there are a host of ethical issues that come with AI. I struggle with the way it was trained and who is profiting. And I'm concerned about the impacts on jobs and the environment. I completely understand why people choose not to use it.
Yet I hope that people who choose not to use it continue to be part of the conversations about it, like the one happening on Thursday. Because it isn't going away and we don't want all the decisions about its future being made by people who DON'T think about these things at all.
"Because it isn't going away and we don't want all the decisions about its future being made by people who DON'T think about these things at all." This is an EXCELLENT point. If everyone who has concerns steps back from the table and refuses to engage, the future will only be crafted by people who don't see the problem.
Pipe dream would be we have a world where everyone has the support, nervous-system regulation, time, and resources to do whatever project they want regardless of who that involves hiring. I personally would feel really wrong about, say, generating an image for a project when I have artists who are friends of mine whose work I know is online and was scraped for training. It's just not something I can get past. I would consider it personal harm to them, and there's nothing I need to get done badly enough that I'm willing to harm a friend over.
Thank you for engaging, by the way. It’s so valuable to me to talk to people who use GenAI who HAVE thought about the issues/don’t pretend there aren’t any and just shrug about the sticky parts of the debate.
Of course! And same. I've never been a fan of black and white thinking!
I was also just thinking that while I mentioned the "economic transaction" bit in my essay I meant it more to highlight the class/equity/access disparity so I should probably make that more clear when I talk about this!
What I wanted my broader point to be was that AI can help people who may be excluded from creativity for whatever reason have access to that part of themselves... definitely not that we should be justifying generating generic crap to save a dollar!
I have also been a very slow adopter of AI and have struggled with the ethics of using it. I learned so much from each of these articles that you shared. Thank you!
These are all important pieces of the larger discussion. It will be a stimulating conversation tomorrow!
Thank you to all four contributors. You offered rich ideas and eloquent words, and you're making me think, and reconsider!
In an unethical society, every question is complex. As an uncle of mine said, it's not the knife that is responsible for the murder, it's the person using it to kill someone.
Omg the first essay is sooooooo good. Heart wrenching and beautiful!!!!!
I definitely need to dive into this deeper but the thing that stuck out to me the most on a cursory reading was talking about having someone create something from an idea of yours - that causes creativity to require an economic transaction. But most of these AI tools are paid, and their use enriches unethical people - there's still an economic transaction between the user and the creative product. I'd like to see that essay writer weigh in on what makes an economic transaction to access AI different from an economic transaction to pay another creative to assist with the realization of an idea.
I'd also love to hear others' thoughts about weighing the idea of putting money directly into the pockets of people who scraped the Internet for uncompensated training material, if that's a fair price to pay for "enriching" one's life - at what point are we making our own lives easier at the expense of others in a way that doesn't outway the cost? If we can survive without AI, why would we choose to add a tool that provides ease at the expense of others when we survived without it previously all our lives?
Ultimately I think it would be better to build an ethical society that gives people freedom to pursue creative interests in ways that accommodate the way their brains work than slap a band-aid on the way things are now by creating dubiously ethical tools that may help some people, but that's my own conclusion.
This is a good question, Caroline and I will address it at the Salon.
"I'd like to see that essay writer weigh in on what makes an economic transaction to access AI different from an economic transaction to pay another creative to assist with the realization of an idea."
Ultimately we are all going to have our own reasons and justifications for our personal usage of AI. The fact remains that it's not going away so we all have to address how we want to relate to it at some point. That's what the Salon is about, exploring all of the questions and thoughts you raised here. I hope you will join!
I am considering joining. Personally I do not use AI tools. Maybe I'm privileged not to need them because of the way my brain functions, I know everyone with ADHD and autism experiences it differently. At this time I don't find use of generative AI to be consistent with my own values of authenticity, effort, and doing as little harm to the world as possible while existing in the system in which I find myself, but I hold no judgement for people who draw different conclusions and don't consider my own personal values inherently superior to anyone else's by default.
I'm happy to talk about that, too, Caroline--now and on the Salon!
From purely practical to more complicated ethics:
First, not all AI tools require an economic transaction. Almost all platforms offer free versions.
Typically, the first tier of the paid versions is also less expensive than hiring someone. This is where it definitely starts to get fuzzy — I do like to work with people more than AI, but I'm also not in a place where I can hire all the people I would like to.
For me, it comes down to whether it is better to get things done or not. I did indeed survive without AI, but many days it felt like that's all I managed to accomplish.
I wish our society was different and more accommodating. And I wholly agree that there are a host of ethical issues that come with AI. I struggle with the way it was trained and who is profiting. And I'm concerned about the impacts on jobs and the environment. I completely understand why people choose not to use it.
Yet I hope that people who choose not to use it continue to be part of the conversations about it, like the one happening on Thursday. Because it isn't going away and we don't want all the decisions about its future being made by people who DON'T think about these things at all.
"Because it isn't going away and we don't want all the decisions about its future being made by people who DON'T think about these things at all." This is an EXCELLENT point. If everyone who has concerns steps back from the table and refuses to engage, the future will only be crafted by people who don't see the problem.
Pipe dream would be we have a world where everyone has the support, nervous-system regulation, time, and resources to do whatever project they want regardless of who that involves hiring. I personally would feel really wrong about, say, generating an image for a project when I have artists who are friends of mine whose work I know is online and was scraped for training. It's just not something I can get past. I would consider it personal harm to them, and there's nothing I need to get done badly enough that I'm willing to harm a friend over.
I totally support that pipe dream. I have the same one!
Thank you for engaging, by the way. It’s so valuable to me to talk to people who use GenAI who HAVE thought about the issues/don’t pretend there aren’t any and just shrug about the sticky parts of the debate.
Of course! And same. I've never been a fan of black and white thinking!
I was also just thinking that while I mentioned the "economic transaction" bit in my essay I meant it more to highlight the class/equity/access disparity so I should probably make that more clear when I talk about this!
What I wanted my broader point to be was that AI can help people who may be excluded from creativity for whatever reason have access to that part of themselves... definitely not that we should be justifying generating generic crap to save a dollar!
Hope you'll be on Thursday's Salon!
Definitely going to try to make it as schedule permits. Would love to talk more about the concept of being “excluded from creativity” if I’m there!
Omg. The third article. Soooooo good!!!.
Wow, lots to think about here. Wonderful pieces!
Didn't expect this take. So important to ask 'Who Gets to Create' with AI.
I have also been a very slow adopter of AI and have struggled with the ethics of using it. I learned so much from each of these articles that you shared. Thank you!